Endogenic Safe - Blog Posts

gonna get a bit syscourse-y here, but... recently noticed kind of a weird hypocrisy in anti-endo arguments and wanted to point it out to see if others agree

for extra context, i have DID and im pro-endo id say?? my mindset is basically just "i dont get it personally, but live ur life dude(s), its not my business and im not gonna tell u what u are / arent" because like. i find it super hard to believe that DID and OSDD-1 are the ONLY possible causes for systems LOL... also i will be using the terms endo / endogenic as umbrella terms for all plurality outside of DID / OSDD-1 throughout this post

ANYWAYS THOUGHH... most harshly anti-endo spaces (or at least those that are pro-recovery) really emphasise that DID and OSDD-1 are more than just "alter disorders", which i absolutely agree with! DID and OSDD-1 are both complex dissociative disorders that include identity alteration (alters) as a SYMPTOM, but the disorders both fundamentally involve dissociation and impairment in daily life to some extent

BUT... then they are also so quick to say that endos MUST have DID / OSDD-1 if they have alters... but what about all the other symptoms? most endos i have met do not experience dissociation or other DID / OSDD-1 symptoms. claiming someone MUST have DID / OSDD-1 because they have alters would kind of be reducing the disorders down to just "alter disorders", right?

plus, it seems to be entirely ignoring the fact that you can have a symptom of a disorder without having the disorder / being disordered... lets use ADHD as an example here since its the first thing to come to mind LOL, someone can have a short attention span or be distracted easily without inherently having ADHD. it would depend on the presence of other symptoms as well as degree of life impairment. this logic also applies to any other disorder ever... so why dont we apply the same logic to DID / OSDD-1?

most endos i see dont claim DID / OSDD-1, and the ones that do are generally mixed origins. if we apply the logic that symptom ≠ disorder and that DID / OSDD-1 are more than just "alter disorders", why would someone not be able to have alters without a dissociative disorder?

IDK i hope this makes sense. feel free to reblog with any comments or anything i want to see others opinionz

Can we stop saying people with covert DID/OSDD or other covert forms of plurality are privileged? Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t understand how suffering in a way that goes unnoticed is more privileged than suffering in a way that’s noticed.

Both have their ups and downs person-to-person. So what makes one more privileged than the other?

I always find it so interesting what skills which headmates have. Like, Lysander has been so good at using our phone despite being from some historical or fantasy world, but the first time Damian tried to use simply plural he almost threw our phone in rage because he had a ton of trouble typing. He also sent a threatening message to himself which I find hilarious, not sure if it was on purpose or if he was trying to send it to someone else (wish I knew who he had beef with lol).

I can’t get over how good of a depiction of plurality Haru is in the anime abridged show 50% Off. Like, it’s unique, but especially for a joke show it feels so reasonable and grounded, and is really non offensive imo?? There are some jokes about murdering people and one headmate tries to kill another at one point, but it’s not an “evil alter” trope, and the way the inner world, internal conversations, and power structures are set up feel so reasonable (I don’t know exactly how things are organized for my crew, communication is pretty ass at least with me, but if we don’t have a Council of Nine sort of thing I hope we get one someday for decision making and communication). The fact that they’re all copies of the same guy is not something I have experience with but is very very silly and not unreasonable either.

//: can we jjust talk about anti-endos for a second?

//: it’s just like... imagine basically saying to someone, “you aren’t real” “ii don’t believe in your existence and you thinking you exist is harmful”

//: it feels hypocritical. it IS hypocritical. because thats what ssome closed-minded singlets say to traumagenics too, surely

//: just because we didn’t form from trauma doesn’t mean we didn’t form at all.

//: and so what? wwe’re just existing. we aren’t hurting anyone.

//: we understand why anti-endos believe what they do about us, and why they believe us eexisting is harmful to them, but it still isn’t right and it’s still hypocritical. y’know?

Cringe system culture is : oh , you don't like xenogenders ? Ah ! Practically everyone uses one here and we collectively identify as baddoggender ! Oh , you don't like endogenic / non traumagenic ? Ah ! Half of us are endogenic ! And the old host was itself endogenic ! Oh , you don't like neopronouns ? Ah ! We practically all use them and we have some collective neopronouns !

Can we claim 🎖️?

Cringe System Culture Is

Ridiculous that people fakeclaim for this shit when it's like dude if they said it was their roommate y'all would probably believe them.

Just laugh with the rest of us bc it's funny, no need to start discourse over a bathtub filled with instant coffee y'all are just making fools of yourselves

this tweet is insane, my alters aren’t instant coffee in the bathtub fucked up

cringe system culture is having 5 introjects of the same (not a) guy but slightly different each time. it feels like a spot the difference in here. we all hang out in the middle of our headspace void and chat its fun in here

Cringe System Culture Is

We have a separate sort of pocket dimension we call fragspace that's full of loose fragments, and that's generally where headmates form. They're not entirely mindless but they're relatively simple-minded and can generally be reduced to a personality trait or two. They are all managed by two people but it used to be one until we managed to get her to coax some fragments into forming an assistant for her. They're essentially waiting for a "foundation" to build on which is why we have so many introjects, so they kind of do take suggestions. I think it'd be more accurate to say it's an invitation? If I scrolled through a bunch of "build a sysmate" type posts we would probably get a ton of them.

Our original fragment manager is slowly going insane managing what are functionally a bunch of rowdy kids (from the little I've seen and heard at least) and we really need to strongarm her into taking another break... the last person to take over for her barely lasted a few hours.

Since they have basic personalities and tend to think out loud there's somewhat of a way to tell what kind of person they'll be. I remember her saying she stopped some from forming JD (Heathers) because their reasoning was wanting destruction and violence which isn't great.

Kind of wild to think most of us formed like that, since nobody remembers fragspace. Well, no one I've met anyway.

Questions for systems: What's something unique about your system?

An introduction by yours truly, Ash

Attempt 3000 of having a Tumblr I like.

I'm Ash, I am 20 year old. Disabled and queer. Chronically online and ill.

🎶🎵 I''ve got the best of both words 🎵🎶

Auto-diag is valid by the way, there's enough information to auto-diagonise yourself with some stuff, and you are the only expert on your life. Ask for help if you need it though

Some people need to chill.

I have two side blogs : @lonebabyone (agere), @onesburyinghole (vent)

DMs open and asks too, for anything.

This blog is primarily to have a space to express myself on subjects i like. More details under the cut.

I enjoy most humanitarians subjects, like psychology, sociology, history, philosophy, politics (because for anarchy i need to know about it urgh). I'm anticapitalist, i do enjoy some stuff produced by it tho (i mean look in which platform i am), antigovernment (authorities and stuff ew). I am for communities and for helping thy neighnoor, at least i'm trying. I'm just a human trying to live in this world and help others when i can. I'm also chronically online and ill so take that as you will.

I will tell you one time if i see you don't respect my boundaries, you will be blocked.

Anyways, I also love some stuff and here some of them if you want to know:

Witch Hat Atelier

Epic the musical

I don't want to be a magical girl

Gravity falls

Formula 1

Rise of the guardians

Amphibia

The owl House

Hazbin hotel

Helluva boss

Spiderman and adjacents

Batfam

Flash

Five Nights at Freddy's

Teen Wolf

Arcane

Ao3

Fandoms in general

Percy Jackson

How to train your dragon

Hunger Games

9-1-1

Winnie the Pooh

Winx

...

The Music Freaks

Bluey

This list is inconclusive and doesn't really have an order.

An introduction by yours truly, Ash

Attempt 3000 of having a Tumblr I like.

I'm Ash, I am 20 year old. Disabled and queer. Chronically online and ill.

🎶🎵 I''ve got the best of both words 🎵🎶

Auto-diag is valid by the way, there's enough information to auto-diagonise yourself with some stuff, and you are the only expert on your life. Ask for help if you need it though

Some people need to chill.

I have two side blogs : @lonebabyone (agere), @onesburyinghole (vent)

DMs open and asks too, for anything.

This blog is primarily to have a space to express myself on subjects i like. More details under the cut.

I enjoy most humanitarians subjects, like psychology, sociology, history, philosophy, politics (because for anarchy i need to know about it urgh). I'm anticapitalist, i do enjoy some stuff produced by it tho (i mean look in which platform i am), antigovernment (authorities and stuff ew). I am for communities and for helping thy neighnoor, at least i'm trying. I'm just a human trying to live in this world and help others when i can. I'm also chronically online and ill so take that as you will.

I will tell you one time if i see you don't respect my boundaries, you will be blocked.

Anyways, I also love some stuff and here some of them if you want to know:

Witch Hat Atelier

Epic the musical

I don't want to be a magical girl

Gravity falls

Formula 1

Rise of the guardians

Amphibia

The owl House

Hazbin hotel

Helluva boss

Spiderman and adjacents

Batfam

Flash

Five Nights at Freddy's

Teen Wolf

Arcane

Ao3

Fandoms in general

Percy Jackson

How to train your dragon

Hunger Games

9-1-1

Winnie the Pooh

Winx

...

The Music Freaks

Bluey

This list is inconclusive and doesn't really have an order.

Rebloging to ask if beings would like updates on how creating/making packmates is going for us.

The updates would be their own posts, btw.

- Shay 🐾

Question for the systems/plurals (or whatever term that beings use for those types of things) that have intentionally created alter(s)/headmate(s) [or whatever term].

How do you actually go about doing that? We are interested in trying to make/create some packmates (our version of alters/headmates) but we don't really know how to go about that.

We hope that we have explained this in a very respectful way.

- Shay 🐾 & Mystery ❔️ (when we started writing this post, Mystery was also in front, but not when posting this)

Edit (we originally just had this in the comments, but it's worth adding to the actual post): Add on to our original post. We have seen tumblr posts of "make a headmate/alter," are those recommended? (Hope this makes at least some sense). We don't necessarily mean using one or asking for one to be made for us. We just mean how they are formatted and all that. But also, would beings recommend using one of those?

We believe that tulpamancy requires intention.

However, there are many different types of plurality, and some aren't from intentional creation and also not from trauma.

From what we know, DID/OSDD/CDD (CDD means complex dissociative disorder) has to come from trauma. But those aren't the only ways to be plural.

We are plural that is partially traumagenic and partially endogenic (endogenic is just any plurality that isn't from trauma). [Also traumagenic doesn't always equal a CDD].

However, even though plurality can happen even without trying, you shouldn't be scared to cope how you want/need to.

- Shay 🐾

Hey, so don’t take this the wrong way, this is just a huge possibly irrational fear of mine that stems from like OCD and anxiety and it would be great if someone could tell me wether or not this is possible.

So I’m nonhuman and my identity is linked to my kin types. I have three: Cat, Fae, and linktype; Vulture.

They all bring a sense of comfort to me and all serve slightly different purposes. My Cat identity just brings general comfort and makes me feel more grounded. My Fae one brings me comfort specifically around humans, and my vulture one makes me feel shielded and protected, while also helping me deal with compulsive urges and whatnot (covering myself and blocking my view with my wings.)

A while back when I had discovered what tulpamancy was and wanted to try manifesting one for a while, before ultimately deciding against it since to me the cons outweighed the pros. Ever since then I’ve been pretty scared of like accidentally creating a tulpa.

So, my question….. Can I like. Accidentally. Manifest alters by doing this? Some of the manifestation methods I came across while researching tulpamancy seem scarily similar, and I don’t wanna accidentally give myself three different alters because I coped too fucking hard, it’s noisy enough up there💔.

I don’t know if tulpamancy requires intention and I don’t know how DD alters manifest aside from trauma throughout childhood and I really don’t wanna find out the hard way. Google isn’t saying much either.

Rebloging our own post cause we really would love some more advice!

- Shay 🐾

Question for the systems/plurals (or whatever term that beings use for those types of things) that have intentionally created alter(s)/headmate(s) [or whatever term].

How do you actually go about doing that? We are interested in trying to make/create some packmates (our version of alters/headmates) but we don't really know how to go about that.

We hope that we have explained this in a very respectful way.

- Shay 🐾 & Mystery ❔️ (when we started writing this post, Mystery was also in front, but not when posting this)

Edit (we originally just had this in the comments, but it's worth adding to the actual post): Add on to our original post. We have seen tumblr posts of "make a headmate/alter," are those recommended? (Hope this makes at least some sense). We don't necessarily mean using one or asking for one to be made for us. We just mean how they are formatted and all that. But also, would beings recommend using one of those?

Question for the systems/plurals (or whatever term that beings use for those types of things) that have intentionally created alter(s)/headmate(s) [or whatever term].

How do you actually go about doing that? We are interested in trying to make/create some packmates (our version of alters/headmates) but we don't really know how to go about that.

We hope that we have explained this in a very respectful way.

- Shay 🐾 & Mystery ❔️ (when we started writing this post, Mystery was also in front, but not when posting this)

Edit (we originally just had this in the comments, but it's worth adding to the actual post): Add on to our original post. We have seen tumblr posts of "make a headmate/alter," are those recommended? (Hope this makes at least some sense). We don't necessarily mean using one or asking for one to be made for us. We just mean how they are formatted and all that. But also, would beings recommend using one of those?

Literally me. I am always fronting.

Although the colors/flag hurts our eyes a bit, lol. Would we be able to make an "alt flag" (that's what they are called, right?) of this?

- Shay 🐾

LockHost

Ive been looking for a system term to describe myself for a while, and decided fuck it we ball and made one myself

A lockhost is an alter in a system that seems to be the 'main' host, and is almost always fronting. They may also decribe themself as 'front-locked' or 'front sticky,' but this may not always be the case. They may be able to leave front or the front area, but are usually aware of whats going on with front anyways, and they are quite often pulled back to front within a short period of time. Because of this, they usually become the bodies 'main identity' in a system.

Other alters may use the identity of the lockhost as a mask in the case that they do not want to show themself, and may also interact with or control the body via the lockhost. In the case of a lockhost being an introject, it would not be uncommon for several doubles of the lockhosts source to also be present in the system.

Lockhosts may also act similarly to 'Observers,' in that they are always aware of the body to some degree, and can quickly be pulled to front in the case that they happen to not be fronting in the traditional sense. The lockhost may also serve many other roles in the system, but not always.

In the case of a lockhost also being part of a subsystem or side system, they may or may not be a lockhost of those as well.

!!!THIS CREATOR OF THIS TERM IS PRO ENDO. I CANNOT STOP ANTI-ENDOS FROM USING IT BUT DO NOT INTERACT WITH ME OR MY POSTS OR I WILL BLOCK. ENDO NEURTALS ARE FINE TO INTERACT. PLEASE RESPECT OUR BOUNDARIES!!!

We are aware that there is a similar term to this that was made by an anti endo, however this term was coined without knowledge of the post existing. Do with that info what you will, keep us out of discourse. And like we said before, we don't care who uses this term, but we ask that anti endos not reblogged so we don't get dragged into discourse.

No real clue, lol.

How did we just notice the "wolfdog" because that's what I am, lol. But in terms of the dog part of me, I don't know my breed(s). [We had picked "something else" originally].

My packmate, Shirley, is multiple medium to big dog breeds. They can shift into any form they want to. Some of our other packmates are also wolfdogs, lol.

- Shay 🐾

Silly little poll cause we all love clicking on things and finding out percentages 😌

+ I'm curious

If you're dogkin, what is your dog 'type? (if you have several, pls select the one that's the strongest of your identities!)

I'm curious cause these are the breeds I see the most often, and I wanna know what kind of dogs y'all are 👀✨

Us when we've been using these terms already and then find this, lol.

We don't really like using alter/headmate for any of us, and we were talking to one of our friends [who is also plural], and packmate was suggested as an alternative.

So we used packmate instead of alter/headmate and we use pack instead of system (we also use plural/plurality instead of system).

- Shay 🐾

Pack / Pack Mate

[PT: Pack / Pack Mate]

Aaa, a system member who prefers Pack/Pack Mate instead of alter/headmate(s); a term for when you use Pack/Pack Mate instead of alter/headmate(s).

Template Used by @love-letterworm

[ID: in Alt text]

[Tags] @system-term-archive, @pluralitywords, @pluralterms, @radiomogai, @plurchive, @mates-friends-and-loves

Genderqueer, trans masc enby (nonbinary), and novigender are all ones that we tend to use for all of us.

Novigender means a gender experience too hard to read/process/understand or too complex to pin down to one word.

- Shay

random poll time! i was curious about the gender distribution of the alterhuman community so i made this. please only answer if you are otherkin, therian, fictionkin, otherhearted, holothere, archetrope, plural, or any other label under the umbrella

(im very sorry about the lack of options, i hit the maximum which is 12. again, if you are not alterhuman please refrain from voting on the poll. thank you :])

This is so true!!

We don't believe we have DID or OSDD, but we are plural, and it does seem like our trauma affected our plurality.

We won't argue with anyone trying to say that we actually have DID/OSDD. It doesn't even really matter to us that much whether we do or do not. All that really matters is that we are plural.

We have had our moments of thinking that our trauma wasn't "bad enough" and shit like that. So, this post definitely helps a bit.

Remember, comparing trauma is not good for anyone.

- Shay 🐾

"my trauma wasn't bad enough i can't be a system"

whenever I hear people say this I always wonder, what metric are you using? your tolerance for how things affect you now as a teenager, or adult?

something that you experienced as a child is going to use a completely different metric! a child's brain is much less developed than an adult's and what they're able to handle is much less. for instance maybe you like horror movies? you probably can watch them without even getting scared! but if you watched the same film at 7 years old it would likely be a lot different!!

you don't need extreme trauma in order to have DID. it just needed to be extreme enough to YOU as a child, that's all. You got bullied at school? that's enough to develop DID! you had a disorder from an early age that made life hard? that's enough to develop DID! your parents were neglectful? that's enough to develop DID!

there's no such thing as gold star DID you don't need to have gone through the worst of the worst. there's no need for trauma olympics, if you have DID you have DID and that's all!

As a plural [questioning origin] who is new to the plural and system community in general, I wanna point out that from what we've seen being a system/plural is not really the whole thing with DID and other dissociative disorder like that, it's the trauma and being a system is more of an "add-on" (sorry for phrasing it like that).

So people saying they are PLURAL or a SYSTEM or whatever other word they prefer to use without trauma is not misdiagnosing themselves cause they aren't claiming to have DID or OSDD or other trauma based dissociative disorders without trauma. They are just saying that they have a similar thing to people with those disorders (I hope we are explaining this correctly).

So why are anti endos so obsessed with trying to call them fake or saying that they are doing that? If you just listen to them, you would learn more, and isn't that better? Don't traumagenic systems/plurals want to be listened to instead of being thought of badly from misinformation and bad representation and shit? So why aren't they doing that for endos?

I wouldn't usually jump into "discourse" or anything, but we felt like this needed to be said and understood. If you don't like this post, leave my account, go ahead, and block me. It will save everyone a ton of time.

- Lakey (They/it + blu/blue/blues/blues/blueself) & Shay (They/it) | almost always here as the host, lol

I think a big part of the reason that I went from anti-endo to endo-safe was absolutely due to how starkly different the communities felt.

Anti-endo communities were hard to engage with. Sure, some of them would focus on their support for each other more than their hatred of endogenic systems. And that's great! However, when you are brought together by your dislike of a certain group, you can't help but feel the hate permiate into so much of it. It always happened eventually. Anti-endo communities had such a focus on systems who were "fake" that I couldn't help but worry I was one of them, no matter how much they told me it was "just endos" they were concerned about.

The endo community (at least the parts I've engaged with and were easy to find) were so kind and respected me as a system, no matter how I felt or my plurality presented. Simply knowing we could find joy in our plurality allowed us to strive for so much more than we had thought possible before.

As a traumagenic system, we've improved so much with our symptoms and communication as a result of the positivity and acceptance we recieved. When we joined communities where we could be authenticallly ourselves (no matter what), we came together and faced so much less conflict between each other. And the conficts we did have, we realized that we could solve them together rather than alone.

When you are constantly doubting if you are "actually a system", you start to push the others away, and that made our dissociation and amnesia so much worse. I understand being careful of self-misdiangnosis, it can put you on the wrong path for how you learn to manage your symptoms. At the same time, the sentiment I often heard from endogenic systems when I was struggling with doubt and denial was very simple: "So what if you're not a system?" In short, it was okay to be wrong.

And that was huge for me. I realized that, no matter if I was a system or not, the techniques I used to improve ourselves and communicate with one another beneficial to me. At the end of the day, even if I wasn't a system after all, the skills I had found we invaluble to my health and well-being. So when I fall into denial spirals, no matter what I think about myself, I now know that I don't need to deprive myself of what has helped me, even if it is a "system thing." I don't feel scared to use these skills anymore (even in denial spirals), beacuse the line between what systems and non-systems or singlets can/can't do suddenly wasn't a big deal or a battle of "who can do what."

Our plurality is no longer a burden or a scar to us. It is simply who we are. We've learned so much about each other and ourselves since we've been accepted in full, and since we've learned to accept others. Endogenic communities have helped us (a traumagenic system) probably more than they'll ever know, and we're forever grateful for that.

So thank you, endogenic systems.

I'm gonna start calling ourself a system/plural, I don't know the exact origin yet, cause I don't know if I had "enough" trauma at the "right" time for it to be DID or OSDD or any other dissociative disorder. But it feels like we are a system/plural.

We will only really be doing this here, I am unsure if I am gonna tell anyone I know in real life for now. I might wait till I figure out our origin, and even then, it would only be a few people that I would tell.

This feels like the right words and terms for what we feel. I will just be using system and plural for us as terms until I figure out more, of course.

- Shirley (They/them + ix/ix/ixs/ixs/ixself) | feels like the right name rn

[Using both I/me and we/our]