Latest Posts by maccakgae - Page 2

i don't go on social media for a couple of hours and finn compares el to e.t. again IJBOLLLL

reblog to ruffle will's hair

woah woah woah

i knew this felt familiar for a reason

oh it's over stevey boy

and i'd just like to remind everyone that this is the previous scene with dustin and steve

they can't seem to name why they're special like a certain someone i know

but anyway, lucas can name why max is special.

same with jonathan and nancy.

even will with mike.

now, you tell me what love looks like in stranger things.

Lol what abt the pizza scene where Mike looks at El and giggles

what about it? i'm gonna be blunt, if a whole season of watching milkvan makeout in s3 wasn't enough to get me to throw out the possibility of a byler endgame, mike giggling at el is nothing.

and honestly, i really like that scene. it's nice to see mike and el get along and talk. it's a shame that that only seems to happen in the show before they officially date (s1-2) or after they've been separated. plus, i'm a big fan of the blasphemous fruity pizza "try before you deny" joke. it reminds me a lot of robin and vickie's "peanut butter monstrosity" sequence.

and of course this scene still aligns with how i understand the characters and how i think byler will happen. are you familiar with the cyrano trope, anon? i'm sure you've seen it before; it's everywhere in all sorts of romantic plotlines (for some quick examples, it's in both IT and the little mermaid).

-if you're familiar with the trope, you can skip the next few paragraphs to the part with all the colors-

it's basically when you have a main character that's madly in love with another, but for some reason can't/won't tell them. so what they do instead is create some sort of token of their love that represents how they feel about the love interest. this can be a letter, a song, a poem , a painting, etc. the love interest finds that token of love and falls in love with the person it's from because it's just such a genuine expression of true love that it makes them feel so deeply cared for, understood, and appreciated. it means a lot to them, basically.

but where the trope gets interesting is that the love interest attributes this token of love to the wrong person. this can be through miscommunication, an evil villain doing villain stuff, or the main character sacrificing their feelings because they believe it'd be better for their love to be with someone else (this is usually due to things like the mc believing they aren't attractive enough/don't have a good enough social standing/aren't good enough for their love interest in general). so they watch on as the love of their life gets into a relationship with someone else.

but of course, the love interest has to realize who the token of love was originally from so that the truth can be revealed. they then realize that the main character was who they wanted to be with all along and they end up together at the end. the moral of the story tends to be that real, true love will win out in the end and that you shouldn't hide it if you feel this way for someone. at the end of the day, it's how you love and appreciate someone that matters more than your social standing, circumstances, insecurities, etc.

now! using the magical power of putting two and two together, we can see how the setup of the cyrano trope applies to el, will, and mike.

the love interest -> mike, obviously

the token of love -> will's painting

which makes: our cyrano mc -> will himself

now for the trope to apply here fully, we need three things to be true: 1. the painting has to be will's true feelings for mike, 2. mike needs to be deeply moved by the painting, 3. mike needs to think the painting (and the feelings it expresses) are from someone other than will. so let's go through each:

1. is the painting and what will says after how he truly feels about mike?

this one is pretty easy to put together. will is waxing poetic about how amazing mike is while tearing up. he wouldn't be getting so emotional if he were just describing someone else's feelings here.

i feel like that's enough evidence, but here's some extra if you want more:

the painting can't be from el -> she writes in her letter to mike that she doesn't even know what will's been painting

el wouldn't have commissioned a painting from will -> el and will don't talk to each other about mike -> will tells mike at the roller rink that he didn't know that el had been lying to mike for months about their lives in cali

what will says about what the painting represents doesn't align with el's feelings for mike -> will says, "you make her feel better for being different" -> el shuts down mike's attempt to say he relates to being different and bullied during their fight, she tells him that he can't understand her because she is truly different from the world and him, she says to him "you think i'm a monster too" -> if someone really felt comforted and secure in another person's presence they wouldn't ask if they were seen as a monster by the other person, they wouldn't lie to the other for months or ask for help from their bully to keep lying, they would be able to confide in the other person not hide from them, the other person wouldn't be paralleled to their abusive father figure (who they leave behind by the end of the season) -> el just doesn't trust mike and doesn't feel better for being different around him

^ the only option is the painting and the feelings it represents being from will, not el

2. does the painting mean a lot to mike?

well, he smiles a lot as will gives it to him and gives will this look as he's explaining it:

so i'd say so.

but the real kicker is that will's explanation for the meaning behind the painting, which we established as will's feelings up above, comes back up when mike finally says "i love you" to el.

el had been crying, asking him to say it earlier in the season and he couldn't. he kept talking about it with will after and he still couldn't say it outright. it's only after will reminds him of what he said in the van "you're the heart!" that he is finally able to say the words.

there's a before and after there. the writers show a clear change in mike when it comes to something he's been dealing with all season and tie it back to the painting and what will said in the van all in the same scene.

because of that, we can conclude that it must have moved him to receive the painting since it literally moved his stance on one of his biggest struggles this season.

3. does mike think the painting is really from el instead of will?

it's hard to get into mike's mind this season as we have sort of shifted away from seeing things from his perspective after s2, but signs point to yes, he believes it's from el:

he doesn't talk to will about the painting -> if he saw through will's lie and the painting meant so much to him like we already said, it would be weird for him to not ask about will's feelings -> he would want to know truth about something that meant so much to him

but if he thinks it's from el, why doesn't he ask her about it? -> it seems he doesn't get much time to -> he and el get interrupted at the pizzeria, el doesn't talk to him after getting to hawkins

the painting was used to spur on a love confession to el, not will -> if the painting was tied to will in mike's mind, it would not have pushed him towards el -> he would have known that she didn't have anything to do with it and would have acted accordingly

(not from the show, so i wanna put these in their own little spot: plus we also have an interview with the duffer brothers saying that will was trying to express his feelings to mike in the van and mike "just doesn't get it and not in a bad way". he just doesn't understand. we also have finn saying that he asked about mike not noticing what will was going through in the van and being told that it will "pay off" later by the duffers. both of these confirm that mike isn't understanding that the painting is from will)

okay, finally back to the fruity pizza:

the key thing here is that the scene where will gives mike his painting happens before the pinneapple pizza scene. remember when i said that in the trope, the mc has to watch their love interest be with someone else after they receive the token of love until the truth is revealed? well, that's what happens in the pizzeria scene. will gives mike the painting, mike and el talk and laugh in the pizzeria, and then we cut to will looking at them sadly.

it's the proper setup of the cyrano trope. and from here, it's inevitable that mike will find out the truth about the painting in s5.

that's why the pizzeria scene isn't "threatening" to me or anything. it's perfectly in line with what i understand the show to be doing

if you've read this far, i just wanna say i'm so impressed and thank you so much :)) this was a loooooong one

this caption is sending me omfg 😭 he really said HERE DAMN

IT'S WILL BYERS DAY EVERYONE!!!!! happy birthday to my sweet darling angel baby 💛

—woke up from literal sleep to write down the thoughts that clicked for me after I made this post about the Mike/Hopper hug last night, so. Here's the expansion of all of that lmao.

people always talk about the way Mike looked conflicted when El kisses him in S3, on top of the way he seemed fine with them breaking up until she initiated the relationship again (because of the absence of Hopper). I think this is 100% true, and it’s also the start of Mike’s spiral about protecting her we see through S4.

Mike’s “care” in lieu of "love" for El (and lack of ability to tell her he loves he romantically) is directly correlated to Hopper telling him to BE CAREFUL re: El right before he died. Almost as though Mike didn’t even have space to think of El as a true romantic partner— he was too busy trying to hold up the end of her missing “dad," and why he didn't know what to do when she started talking about how she didn't belong (because he's fourteen and not capable of filling the shoes of her father lmao).

the reason why Mike said “I was worried too much about El” is because he was—he was worried in a way suited for a father, not a boyfriend (thank you @emily-tumbles-on for that tag lol).

It’s also why he was so willing to let El go back to Owens—it’s a trusted (-ish) adult figure who could help El in a way his 14 year old self could not. It’s also why he immediately seems okay with letting her go once she says she wants to + throwing away her letter, right up until he realizes where El went is dangerous again, which meant he has to restart the protector-in-Hop’s place worry (which he doesn’t want, but feels powerless to step away from in his paladin-oath-responsibility mind).

When Mike & Will get into it at Rink O Mania over Will not telling Mike what was going on, Will interprets it as romantic attachment when it’s really giving “worried parent” not boyfriend.

That entire “you should have told me” also DIRECTLY REFLECTS the way Mike sees Will as his actual partner and equal no matter the time or distance (like in S2)—and expects him to help shoulder leadership responsibilities the way romantic/life partners would by helping him look after his charge (El).

The whole painting is confusing af for Mike because he does not see El as his partner or lover, but his responsibility in Hop’s absence—and Will, in his projection, is conflating his romantic love for Mike into the familial one between Mike & El. That's also why Mike feels so insecure about not being responsible enough (!!!) and why he looks dejected the way a parent would when you tell them you want do something they used to think was fun before having a kid when Will says “we could just play DnD and Nintendo for the rest of our lives.”

The van scene takes on a whole new meaning when you think about how the second Will made it about El, it forced Mike into a mental conundrum because he felt loved as himself at first…only to have it thrown back in with this wildly inappropriate parental responsibility he has for El because of Hop’s loss. (I watched the van scene again with this in mind and...lmao. Mike's expressions make absolute sense once you keep this conflation / confusion in mind)!

Yet another reason Mike and Jonathan need to have another conversation is because both of them have been suffering from a severe parentification—Jonathan for Will, and Mike for Eleven.

Hopper returning leaves space for both of them to move back into age-appropriate selfishness/relationships (aka think about their own wants and needs with Nancy and Will for a change) because Joyce doesn’t need Jonathan to fill the “man of the house” space, Will is going to “come of age” and have Mike, and El is gonna have her dad.

....all that to say these (and probably a million more things) become WAY clearer when you realize Mike is carrying the burden of Hopper's absence not as a boyfriend, but as 14 year old boy filling a parent space...which makes me really glad Hop didn't really die in S3 all of a sudden lmao. And also...Duffers. FREE MIKE WHEELER 2025

Thinking about how people who only (or primarily) understand Mike’s arc through a “hes queer and coming to accept it / struggling with heteronormativity/will get his happy ending when he gets with Will” lens are missing at least half of what defines his arc in the wider context / themes of the show.

Forewarning: long post (& also maybe an unpopular opinion)

Even as a queer person myself, I know that his arc isn’t solely about embracing his queerness (though it’s inherently interlinked). In Mike, you have a character who is being radically challenged by both external circumstances and his own decisions through a journey away from all kinds of forced conformity (social, familial, romantic & heteronormative) and into someone self actualized enough to live how they want…while also being strong enough to accept that they made mistakes along the way. Someone who is learning to be brave enough to say “this is who I am, what I enjoy, and what/who I love…and while it took me a lot of time to figure it out, now I can exist in the world embracing that even though it will take consistently resisting the tendency to accommodate people who think it’s unacceptable.”

Like. Even from a time before puberty (see: S3) Mike wants a life that stands apart from what’s expected of him in every area, not just in choosing a romantic relationship with another guy. He wants to continue to be a nerd and “child at heart” even though something else is repeatedly demanded of him by everyone from his parents to El in his romantic relationship. He wants to be a writer and someone who takes those nerdy interests into his adult life (cue aggressive gesturing toward the duffers themselves) and grates against all that’s been constructed for him even when he’s not (yet) brave enough to challenge it directly. Mike liking boys/loving Will is just “the final nail in the coffin” of his social and societal nonconformity—not the first (or the last) aspect of what makes him different from Hawkins or the life he was made to believe would suit him best.

Even the fact that Mike has a desire to be “normal” comes from an insecurity and fear that choosing what he truly wants will lead to him being outcasted and losing the people he cares for entirely—which is partially motivated by his queerness yes, but that also has a basis in his general interests and personality…which becomes especially obvious when you realize we are repeatedly shown that he is punished/has his wishes ignored in all areas he doesn’t conform, even long before we get into a plot where it’s clearer he likes boys.

We see it in how his parents have already started to demand he put boundaries on the time he spends playing his “childhood games” the very first scene of season one, how they demand social acceptable emotions from him when Will is missing, and how Karen & Ted want him to give up toys in S2 when he’s showing signs of depression (because they think the issue is him growing up, not that he’s struggling with loss or guilt for what happened to El).

We see it in how his own father comments about taking his CA trip away from him after calling Hellfire being a group for “dropouts” in S4 (implying that he is failing on an academic and social level that matters to wheelers—and that Nancy is good at).

We even see it in the way everyone from his bullies to his own girlfriend threaten and take things away from him when he doesn’t conform to social expectations...from Troy telling him to jump off the cliff to save Dustin in S1 (as punishment for the one time Mike stands up for himself in the gymnasium) to El jumping straight into breaking up with him and spying on him when he doesn’t do exactly what she wants him to in Season 3.

All of these moments are critical to understanding Mike as a person because they show us that, even without addressing his queerness, Mike’s desire to conform to socialized expectations involves but is not solely about him moving out of heteronormativity—it’s about him moving against everything that WASP, patriarchal, heteronormative and capitalistic and performative “wholesome American” values…and how he is learning to move past the fear of what will happen if he steps outside the lines in general, even though he already knows he hates those standards.

Mike’s “coming of age” arc is about finding the strength to choose the “path less traveled” in all areas of his life—even when it means (potentially) losing the support of the people he cares about. It’s about starting from a place of privilege and becoming okay with being outcasted from it in a way your insecurities never let you be before (which is inherently different than Will, who has always been shown to have some kind of support not just for his queerness but his artistic endeavors as well). Mike’s lack of support is why he starts from a place of deep insecurity, yes—but it’s also why him learning power of choosing to be himself, even if it means “losing” people when he’s honest about who (& what) he is will be universally powerful.

You don’t need to be queer to understand the power of what it means to know you will be okay even if people leave you. You don’t need to be queer to understand the power of stepping outside social expectations or your family’s way of raising you. You don’t even need to be queer to understand the weight of breaking up with someone you were only with to satisfy what you thought you should do, rather than be with who you want to.

The power of being strong enough to overcome your insecurities in order to “step out of line” and live and love as you want to is universal, and a stunningly brave choice no matter what or why you chose to do so. The fact that Will will be there waiting to love him in that honesty with himself is beautiful, yes—but it’s not the only lesson to be learned for Mike’s character.

Mike starting out with everything the world (or, at least America) tells would make you happy, realizing he is not happy with those things and rejecting them knowing it might have consequences is what makes his arc powerful, because he is learning (exactly like his sister Nancy) to be brave enough to accept those consequences (which for him are getting dumped, and feeling like he’s being left behind by some of his friends) to follow his own heart.

Even though The Duffers aren’t writing this into a tragic ending (aka: he’s not going to die or be left alone, because the duffers writing is inherently designed ro champion the outcast), these are the things that have (and will) make him relatable even to an audience that doesn’t know queerness. Erasing the fact that his lesson is the bravery it takes to follow your heart solely to talk about him liking guys (even Will) is to undermine his humanity, and the lessons to be learned from him by even the most general an audience.

TL:DR - the heteronormative aspect of Mike’s character is not the sole or even inherent issue within Mike, though heteronormativity is inherently built into his struggle.

There are deep dives on how his arc is also about a war against toxic patriarchy, toxic masculinity, emphasis on capitalistic and academic accomplishments over artistic ones, and even conformist relationships (whether they’re queer or not) that should be explored for his character—and I for one like him too much not to move out of just “this boy is queer because xyz” and into “let’s talk about Mike in terms of the wider scope of his cultural context and upbringing.” 🤷🏽‍♀️😂

Thoughts on "Escape from Camazotz"

Oppressive Suburbia, Conformity, and Season 5 Themes

I've long thought that a major focus of Season 5 will be the contrast between the families of The Wheelers and The Byers, and exploring how non-traditional family environments can be freeing vs the oppressive structure of the nuclear family.

In a Wrinkle In Time, Camazotz is a planet controlled by the big bad of the book, the "IT", who forces the citizens into a conformity that resembles American suburbia. All of the houses the same, the citizens the same, doing the same things at the same time without individual identity. Without anything different. Different means a lot of things, but with Stranger Things dropping different in reference to Will's identity and the presumable themes of this season, it will heavily codify as queerness and how it threatens the cisheterosexual family model.

Henry was raised in the 1950s, a decade still revered by conservatives for it's traditional family dynamics that supposedly were the peak of culture and happiness for all. That was all a lie, of course, and Henry knew so as he shows to Nancy and Eleven during his monologue. The second most conservative decade aside from the 1950s in American society is widely considered to be the 1980s.

The Creels will serve in parallel to The Wheelers; the worst example of what they could become and the damage that this type of family could do to a child that is different in any way. Notice how Vecna selectively shows Nancy visions of The Wheelers dying, but not anyone else she may consider family or friends (like Jonathan).

That is; unless they change their ways and come together as a healthy functioning family facing their traumas, The Wheelers will be toast.

Karen has been moved up to a main character role this season. Ted's actor says the father starts to show up more for Holly (hold that) and realizes he wants to act differently. Holly has been recast. Finn has said Mike goes on a much more personal journey this season, and steps up as a leader.

Oh, also: the catalyst for all of this is that Holly goes missing. The contrast will help show how the Byers (including El and Hopper here) were able to pull together and help solve Will's disappearance, versus how the Wheelers as a closed off nuclear family grapple with Holly's vanishing.

Each of the Byers is in some kind of a non-1950s conformist relationship, but particularly Will (not in one now but we all know he will be). I think El might represent, after she breaks up with Mike, the fear of the unmarried woman being satisfied without a husband. The above shot really emphasizes my point.

I predict that Will will end up coming out to his family rather early on, and we will see all of them immediately accept him with little surprise or push-back. Will is a visible gay man who comes from an open minded non traditional family (divorced, non-married, adoptive) that is willing to have honest conversations.

But this theme will place the most focus on the Wheelers. Mike is the main character of said family and this will particularly focus on his arc, and his acceptance of his queerness in the midst of suburban conformity.

He is not visible, he comes from a Reagan-supporting family who don't communicate with each other. He is not particularly close with his family like Will is. He pushes his feelings down and tries his damn hardest to be normal despite it all. His trauma hasn't really been addressed at all. He is falling back into his usual habits - the one thing he dared to do different (grow his hair long) has gone back to how it was.

It's not all doom and gloom though. This season above all will be a redemption arc of the American nuclear family, how they choose to escape their conformity and learn to be there for each other, thus overpowering Vecna. Not that the Wheelers are going to end this personally.

"Great, more hysteria. Just what we need". "It's the news, now indistinguishable from the tabloids".

WHY IS JACK'S (Jack McPhee, aka gay guy from Dawson's Creek who is heavily paralleled to Mike Wheeler) FIRST TIME AT A GAY BAR SCENE LITERALLY RINK 'O MANIA???? WTF

I know the duffers LOVE to parallel Mike to Jack, but idk if those were just a common combination of lights or if this means something lol, I know that the rink 'o mania scene is EXTREMELY queercoded with all the music and queer imagry in the background so I think the Duffers did this on purpose

i miss mike wheeler. when will he come back from the war

... oh.

"byler isn't endgame because mike spends a lot of time with lucas in s5!" as if scenes with a character outside the ship can't have moments to establish the ship, honestly

mike can talk with lucas about his worry for will. lucas can notice mike acting weirdly when it comes to will. mike can confide in lucas about his dying romantic relationship with el. outsider pov can be a great tool, and i won't be surprised if there's a talk between them that establishes mike's queerness and/or feelings for will

Will and Mike shouldn’t say ily in s5 because when ST couples say it things never end well for them, for example look at Stancy! and look at Lumax who never say ily and only kissed once because actions speak louder than words and kissing isn’t one of those actions, and look at Mileven! IT’S BONES GUYS!! Plus we shall not forget the “I didn’t say it.” “You didn’t have to.” because THAT IS LITERALLY BYLER IN A NUTSHELL AND THAT’S WHY THEM SAYING ILY JUST DOESN’T SIT RIGHT WITH ME OK? SO HEAR ME OUT: lots and lots of “This is crazy”, “It feels like I’m going crazy”, “We’re crazy”, “You’re crazy”, “You make me feel like I’m going crazy” etc ETC BECAUSE “Well they say it makes you crazy” AND “Blank makes you crazy” AND “Only love makes you that crazy” AND “Wiwbgctwgctr?” “Yct.” THANKS FOR COMING TO MY SLEEP DEPRIVED TED TALK!

just thought about will's powers reveal in stranger things season 5 episode 4 titled "sorcerer" and life is good again

Does anyone know of any slow burn cleridan fanfics? It’s like my favorite AU ever but I’ve only seen like two fics for it (which both of them were really good and cute but they were super short💔)

honestly, i don't think i will even try to guess what's the plot of s5 going to be. i feel like they came up with something so bonkers, anything i'd say about the actual plot is going to be wildly off the mark

i do know there's a byler kiss in there somewhere, though. maybe even multiple

Making a post about the s1 parallels in s4 (there’s a lot) but I just needed to post this rn. God, they’re insane.

Also if I might add: “I always took you for a queer” vs “oh no, did we embarrass you in front of your boyfriend” (with mocking laugher).

i find it funny that mil*vens always repeat that "they're not breaking mil*ven up, they've been building them up for 4 seasons!!!" argument like a bunch of robots. they're parroting that as if it's a legitimate point and not complete bullshit. no, they've not been building up mil*ven for 4 seasons, they've been developing their relationship. there's a fundamental difference.

build-up implies characters and arcs going from point A to point B, gradually approaching the climax and resolution. mil*ven's point B happened back in season 2, in the 353 days and the snow ball scenes. that's it, the build-up has paid off and now it's over. in season 3 they are established at their point B. from then on, they've been developing their relationship and setting up their point C.

a build-up existing doesn't always mean it's going to be positive. characters slowly approaching divorce is a build-up. a character fostering resentment that leads them to betray a friend is a build-up. a character going from healthy to terminally ill is a build-up. as long as it's done slowly, brick by brick, and results in a climax, it's a build-up.

mil*ven being a pair throughout all seasons doesn't mean they have a singular overarching arc. that's the problem with the "for 4 seasons!!!!!" argument, since it's simply not applicable to mil*ven. it's almost like their shippers describe a completely different, a will-they-won't-they couple, and that was never the case. no, mil*ven's story isn't linear, as there was another conflict introduced. after getting from A to B, they're going to C now — from season 3, they've been building up a new arc in their relationship: their breakup.

but you know what has been built-up for 4 seasons and will conclude in season 5? will's sexuality arc. mike's internalized homophobia arc. and yes, mike and will's relationship.

Taking a break from my Mike analysis to write out how i envision the painting reveal going

Damn this is therapeutic i swear

severance au would work so damn well with byler. like imagine mike and will's outies being best friends, and the moment mike w and will b meet, they immediately feel that connection. the electricity. they were born quite literally yesterday, but there's no denying they've known each other for years, even if they have no recollection of it.

mike w never had to fall in love with will b, the love was already there.

...that said, now imagine will being a permanently severed employee, similar to gemma. the disappearance of will byers has been a cold case for years, yet his absence is still haunting mike like a phantom limb. unable to move on, he agrees to the severance procedure in a futile attempt to escape his grief.

on the severed floor, mike w meets mr. maldonado. it's odd, they are strangers, yet the moment mike hears "it was a seven", his heart skips a beat, and for the first time in a long while, mike feels at home.

even after all these years, love still transcends severance.

a little fun fact about me: i made a byler animatic after s4 came out. it's still up on youtube lol

not to mention he's just found out that joyce is looking into selling her house and moving out of hawkins. the woman he loves is slipping right out his grasp, they aren't even in a relationship and he's about to lose her for good. his attempt to do something about it crashes miserably when joyce stands him up. his daughter is growing up, too. el no longer spends as much time with hopper as she used to, opting to spend it with mike instead. they don't play board games every night anymore, don't make triple-decker eggos, don't watch westerns together. the reason why hopper is that hostile to mike is because he feels like mike is the reason why he's losing el.

so he's acting out. it's not exactly rational, it's highly emotional, but what we need to understand about hopper in s3 is that he is deeply scared. he is terrified. the two of the most important people in his life are pulling away from him, and he can't do anything about it. it's out of his control, and it's painful, and he's fighting an uphill battle against what is inevitable. change.

Unpopular opinion maybe but they did NOT destroy Hopper's character in season 3

He lost his daughter and after some years and tragedies that could lead to a complete disaster he found people he deeply cares about

1. He believes he's a curse. He says that in season 4. Everyone he loves he hurts. Pushing away people he cares about seems to be pretty in line with this belief he holds.

2. He lost his daughter. Now, he has El. He's scared his going to lose her bc she literally risks her life every time Hawkins in in danger. And don't forget that the government was looking for her. She wasn't going to school or anything. She was in the cabin all the time - protected by him bc as I said - he already lost a daughter before and El is in a constant danger. Now, El has a boyfriend with whom she spends most of her time. It's normal for a father to question his daughter's partner (to some extent). And he hear from Hopper that all Mike and El do is kissing and that it is constant. I know he's a bot of an unreliable narrator but... Mike and El are 13 at that time. It does not seem healthy. If I were him I would certainly be concerned. Also, we as an audience know Mike, but Hopper doesn't have have enough interactions with him to trust him completely.

3. He tried to ask Joyce out. She didn't show up. He's ego was crashed. And he's the chief of the police. He has a role to fullfill in a society. After losing his daughter he was drinking, taking pills and sleeping with random women. As if he was trying to prove himself. After everything that happened in Hawkins he started to be suspicious of things that other people might find... questionable to look into. He couldn't act as a "perfect chief of police" anymore. So he had to overperform in a different way. He lost his family. He realised that the world he has known for all of his life is... different. He stopped being an authority figure (do you remember when he had to arrest the protesters despite believing that they should be allowed to prostest? He had to conform not to lose his position. He didn't choose to be brave. He chose an option that would save his image and probably job even though it wasn't the right thing to do). And then - after all of that - he realised that the woman he's in love in and who understands and with whom he probably felt like he doesn't have to perform bc she doesn't and she'a not ashamed of it (she was sure that Will talked to her through lights)... doesn't want him. He failed most of the standards set for men in the 80s society. So he had to perform like he didn't.

4. About Joyce again. First of all, IMAGINE YOU INVITE SB FOR "NOT A DATE" AND THEY DON'T SHOW UP WITHOUT SAYING ANYTHING AND IT TURNS OUT THEY WERE HANGING OUT WITH SOMEONE ELSE. Secondly, if he can't be with her than he has to push her away to somehow get rid of those feelings. Again - he performs his manhood (bc of toxic masculinity standards IN THE 80S) and being in love with a woman who he can't have wouldn't help him in that. And as I said at the begining - everyone he loves he hurts. Maybe if he can't keep her close enough to protect her, he should keep enough distance not to hurt her.

Hopper also went through a lot and just because he's not a teenager it doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings and that societal pressures don't affect him. I'd argue that since he somehow was able to fullfill society's expectations at the begining and than he just couldn't anymore he's even more prone to this toxic overcompensation.

I hope that what I wrote makes sense and is understandable (english is not my first language). I just can't stand it when people argue that they "get the chacaters" and than hate on Hopper

it’s just so frustrating seeing mike and will, two characters that are childhood best friends that clearly understand each other better than anyone else and work together perfectly, be treated like a joke just because they’re two boys.

people rush to defend mike and el and the only reasons they come up with for why they should stay together is because “they’ve been together for 4 seasons and they made out so many times!!” or “because they’re canon!!!!! 🥺”, but those aren’t good reasons at all? they don’t even have what relationships are supposed to have???

where’s the trust, honesty, communication, shared interests and actually being themselves around each other? or are you just gonna keep using the "but they saved each other in s1" or “they’re just kids” excuse even though this relationship is only affecting them (and people around them) mentally? where do you draw the line? can’t you see that their age isn’t an excuse for how bad they work as a couple? THEY JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER. it was proven in season 4. they can’t even comfort each other or communicate properly. mike couldn’t tell his own girlfriend he loved her until his best friend told him to, because he fell in love with his best friend’s feelings for him that he disguised as el’s.

this is another major thing too - mike became a very disliked character from season 3 onwards, after he "officially" started dating el. most of the general audience, even people that couldn't care less about ships, just got extremely pissed off at mike and said he became an unlikeable character. even the CHARACTERS in the show got pissed at mike and kept saying how annoying he is with el. when you get into a relationship, you're supposed to change for the better, not for the worse, so this says a LOT about their relationship and the immaturity they have when they're together. there's no growth at all. it wasn't just a season 3 issue, it went into season 4. and they're unable to solve anything on their own without someone intervening? will was literally used as a plot device!

if you ask someone to tell you how mike and el are in a healthy relationship, they can’t even tell you, because there’s nothing to say. the excuses they make up to defend them just make no sense. blaming mike’s insecurities, saying this is el’s first relationship and many other things just don’t cut it. they love each other as people, but they simply don’t work as a ROMANTIC couple. the show also confirmed that they’re both insecure in this relationship and they can’t be themselves. this isn’t about their age because they’ve shown more maturity and respect with other characters they’ve been with than in their own relationship.

they rushed into romance when they were 12 years old and knew each other for 6 days, and even now, they don’t feel like equals and barely even know each other. how are they supposed to know each other when they lie most of the time anyways? el lied about her life in california and mike's always lying about things too because they're so insecure and don't feel fully emotionally safe with each other. the only person mike has felt fully comfortable with is will?

like i genuinely don’t understand why the writers are doing this if it’s not going to end with byler.

i don’t understand why they’re constantly teasing and shoving things in our face.

i don’t understand why they’ve shown that mike and will’s relationship has always been different and special since the beginning if it didn’t mean anything.

i don’t understand why they made will love mike since the beginning, before el was even in the picture, just to have him get kidnapped and then return to find out that mike has eyes for el instead and will feels like he’ll never get anything and that he’s a mistake for who he is.

i don’t understand why they’re making it clear that mike and el don’t work as a couple and that mike feels more safe and comfortable with will if they’re going to force mike and el to stay together.

i don’t understand why they’re making a gay child suffer even more when he’s been suffering his entire life and has barely been happy throughout the entire show. at least in season 3 everyone else got to have their little romance storylines and happy moments but will got absolutely nothing. he was excluded and then he had a breakdown after his fight with mike??

what was the point of any of this if byler wasn't going to happen?

will painted something for mike in s4, so i think it's only fair if mike writes something for will in s5 <3